tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post6811013941264238319..comments2024-03-27T08:14:40.699-07:00Comments on Indie Writers Monthly: Lies Writers Tell... To Other Writers (Part Three -- You're Too Close To Your Work)Brianehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-75529976412234732522016-08-09T10:54:19.016-07:002016-08-09T10:54:19.016-07:00To get best sentence checking generator then click...To get best sentence checking generator then click our site <a href="http://www.sentencechecker.net/correct-your-sentence-fragment-checker-online-for-free/" rel="nofollow">fragment sentence checker</a>.aliyaahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06184256288293330921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-24046292858285602312014-06-05T16:03:28.387-07:002014-06-05T16:03:28.387-07:00Nigel: That can happen when you've been readin...Nigel: That can happen when you've been reading the same material over and over; that's one of the reasons "they" say to take a break between the writing and the editing. Mostly, I think it's a matter of training yourself in the way you pay attention to the material. Also, I think reading it out loud helps you to force yourself to look at the words in a different way.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-68207298039397887972014-06-05T15:41:22.608-07:002014-06-05T15:41:22.608-07:00I don't hire editors and don't have a team...I don't hire editors and don't have a team of readers yet, and you make great points, but I will say this. Once I've read my novel for the third time, my eyes glaze over and stop reading what's on the page and start reading what I think is there. It was only on the fifteenth read through of one of my novels that I realized I'd put the wrong gender pronouns into one chapter and referred to a huge bodybuilder thug as "she" the whole time. So I do think another pair of eyes is helpful. But I think there are plenty of people and resources online that can help you for free before you get to paying someone. And yeah, I don't care for a story editor either. Nigel G Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01587936933402372050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-52217791509411801432014-06-04T16:21:56.862-07:002014-06-04T16:21:56.862-07:00Briane: Well, the lawyer stuff was mostly a joke f...Briane: Well, the lawyer stuff was mostly a joke for you. Well, poking fun. I understand the reason for the stuff; I just don't always understand all the stuff.<br /><br />I'm not saying it's not a good thing to have someone give your work a read through before you send it out; what I am saying is that this mantra I see pop up all the time about how you need to hire a professional editor is a bunch of hooey. And probably started by editors. Having someone you trust and who will ask all the "why?" is probably a good thing.<br /><br />I'd hire myself out as an editor if I thought anyone would actually pay me what it would make it worth my while to charge. But, seeing as how most authors don't make that kind of money, I haven't put that out there.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-39982670841948026382014-06-04T15:53:05.319-07:002014-06-04T15:53:05.319-07:00So much to comment on. I need an outline:
1. Law...So much to comment on. I need an outline:<br /><br />1. Lawyers and explanations.<br />2. Editing and whether someone should do it for you.<br />3. Story editors and whether they are any good or not.<br /><br />Let's start!<br /><br />1. LAWYERS AND LEGALESE. Did you ever wonder why your credit card agreement is 15 pages long? What those boxes are when you buy a car? Every single clause in a contract is there because in the past it wasn't and someone's lawyer got them out of a deal because of it. Read your contract: it says "You promise to pay us," or words to that effect. Without that, they might not be able to make you pay.<br /><br />As for putting it into plain terms? Those boxes on your car purchase agreement are the "Plain Terms" mandated by the Truth In Lending Act. I spend a significant amount of time explaining to baffled consumers what they mean. They were written by lawyers, and as one appellate judge said, "[Lawyers] are a poor exemplar of the common man."<br /><br />My own rule is that I explain things until you understand them. If I can't explain it to you, you can't make smart decisions about your case. I wish doctors did that. My doctor recently said "I'm going to give you [this] and [this] because you have [this]." How can I tell if that's a smart thing to do? I had no options and I don't know what the medicines do. Granted, I can ask -- but good professionals don't put the burden on the client to ask a question. They explain first.<br /><br />So anyway, lawyers in fact DO tend to rely on fancy expressions and legalese. They're taught that way and get so used to talking it they can't leave it behind easily. And as I joke with my clients, "If we didn't have fancy words, you'd think you didn't need to pay us $300 per hour."<br /><br />2. Editing and whether someone should do it for you. I think it is smart to get another pair of eyes looking at stuff. Look at the IWM June issue: I read it and re-read it and never realized I'd put "Issue 3" onto it. When you're especially familiar with things your mind tends to fill in the blanks for you, or see what you want to see. So having someone else take a look at it is a good idea. As indie writers, we should all be willing to help out from time to time, but understand too that it's a burden and so we should offer something. Like when I paid a bounty for errors.<br /><br />3. STORY EDITORS? I don't know much about them, but I wrote a story called "Alby's Drawings Of Time" and I thought it was great, and then I went back and re-read it recently, and I realized I could fill in a lot more; there was a lot that happened offstage, meaning in my head, and it wasn't all that well explained. So I think someone saying "this doesn't really make sense" or "your characters don't seem believable" or even, say, "Why wouldn't the three old witches just TELL Meg when to use the glasses?" might be very helpful. <br /><br />If the direction they choose changes your story drastically, then you can reject it and stay true to your vision, etc., etc., but sometimes I think it's a good idea to have people look stuff over.<br /><br />Then again, I never have people look stuff over, so don't listen to ME.<br /><br />PS: You should hire yourself out as an editor. I would totally pay you to edit my books, assuming you didn't want me to actually PAY you.<br /><br />PS: I am SO SICK OF FLORENCE AND THE MACHINE THAT I REFUSE TO EVEN LISTEN TO THAT SONG. It's a Pandora thing.Brianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-23620322344786813702014-06-04T15:52:05.444-07:002014-06-04T15:52:05.444-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11618883288780393195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-57951832177297542862014-06-04T13:17:04.705-07:002014-06-04T13:17:04.705-07:00Lee: LOL about the lawyers. I'll have to ask B...Lee: LOL about the lawyers. I'll have to ask Briane if that's part of lawyer training.<br /><br />If something is "weak," but you like it that way, maybe it's not so weak. However, if you have an actual error that you don't know is an error, having someone to point it out can be a good thing. That's what copy editors are for.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-70727641624739564602014-06-04T13:07:42.590-07:002014-06-04T13:07:42.590-07:00Good analogy. I'm not thrilled when people co...Good analogy. I'm not thrilled when people come to my house because my wife gets obsessive about cleaning up. Usually it's her family coming over and I figure if they don't like our house which stays pretty neat then maybe they don't need to come over.<br /><br />Now my writing I want people to see and I care what they think so in that respect I think you're right. I think that for the most part I self-edit fairly well so my writing is pretty much how I think it should be and I think acceptable to readers. But I do understand about that idea of being too close. Sometimes I just don't see what is weak or in error because it sounds good to me and I like it.<br /><br />There should be a law against legalese. I think lawyers write things that way so people will be more apt to screw something up and have to hire a lawyer.<br /><br />Lee<br /><a href="http://tossingitout.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Tossing It Out</a><br />Arlee Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-86735388381081855002014-06-04T11:29:57.291-07:002014-06-04T11:29:57.291-07:00Sandra: Well, beta readers are different thing tha...Sandra: Well, beta readers are different thing than editors, even though I mentioned them here. The beta reader post is next time.<br /><br />Jean: I don't have an issue with a few errors in a "published story;" I have an issue with it when it's in a traditionally published novel where they are theoretically paying people to make sure nothing gets through. When the traditional publishers can't get it right yet feel compelled to trash talk independents, it pisses me off.<br /><br />Pat: And, yet, product focus groups prove incorrect all the time. Take the New Coke example, which had tons of focus groups that all said it was better than classic, and we all know how that turned out.<br /><br />Maurice: That's it exactly. I would hire an editor if I could afford one just because I'd rather move on to something else rather than spend my time combing for comma errors; however, I do know how to comb for comma errors, etc.<br />And, once I can afford it, I'm totally hiring someone to clean my house, too.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-30396893062412011732014-06-04T07:51:06.090-07:002014-06-04T07:51:06.090-07:00I'm not a writer obviously, but I get what you...I'm not a writer obviously, but I get what you're saying about cleaning. It would be great if you could hire a maid to do everything for you, but what about those times when the maid is sick or takes the week off? Does the house slowly bury itself in filth? No. You have to know how to do it yourself. It's probably the same thing with proofing your own work. You can always pay someone to fix your mistakes or learn to trust yourself. I'd still get a maid if I could though. I'm lazy about somethings. And I hate folding laundry too Man. I hope you have a smokin' rest of the day.Maurice Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15338165486757095191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-63525809935328439332014-06-04T07:19:08.201-07:002014-06-04T07:19:08.201-07:00Other people are better at telling you weaknesses ...Other people are better at telling you weaknesses in plot. It's like a product focus group. But if you're fairly competent in English I don't see the need to pay someone to check your spelling. If you read it yourself a few times you should get most everything, though it's best to reread every so often to catch things you might miss.PT Dillowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09394481476862013009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-32150603962248456842014-06-04T06:44:18.400-07:002014-06-04T06:44:18.400-07:00There's nothing that bugs me more when reading...There's nothing that bugs me more when reading a published story than finding multiple errors. That said, most everything I send out has been read by other eyes because, darn it, we haven't got to the point where the story in my head goes right into readers minds. Which might be scary. No, it would certainly be scary. Anyway, yes, things that make perfect sense to me, usually motivations and descriptions, don't always make sense to anyone not in my head. <br /><br />In summary: Self editing, yes. Have to pay someone, not necessarily. Extra sets of eyeballs on the pages before submitting usually makes the story better. Jean Davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02047709505502621618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-67321892951872040412014-06-04T04:31:17.769-07:002014-06-04T04:31:17.769-07:00I have a feeling this might generate some interest...I have a feeling this might generate some interesting responses....<br /><br />I will admit the last two short stories I submitted to IWM were completely self-edited. Since leaving OWW, I haven't put together a new group of beta readers, though there are a few people I plan to approach one my latest WIP is ready. That said, I wouldn't feel comfortable publishing a novel without at least some beta readers seeing it.Sandra Ulbrich Almazanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15365908651235829765noreply@blogger.com