tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post675012624506347858..comments2024-03-27T08:14:40.699-07:00Comments on Indie Writers Monthly: No Respecter of (Third) Persons: Part One -- How Does That Make You Feel?Brianehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-34164151596562649942014-07-29T11:17:54.464-07:002014-07-29T11:17:54.464-07:00Carrie-Anne: I agree. How "personal" the...Carrie-Anne: I agree. How "personal" the story is has nothing to do with what person it's written in but in how the writer conveys the emotions. First person is an illusion.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-29472993760312817392014-07-29T09:33:22.018-07:002014-07-29T09:33:22.018-07:00I've written exclusively third-person omniscie...I've written exclusively third-person omniscient for over 20 years now, though if a book is focused on just one character instead of an ensemble cast, my writing is closer to third-person limited. I don't get the modern claim that third-person is too impersonal, limiting, old-fashioned, etc. First-person is so overdone these days, all these narrators have started to sound all the same, and pretty impersonal.<br /><br />I do enjoy writing short first-person interludes within a book, like a letter, op-ed, journal entry, love note, etc. It lets me get into just one character's mind and voice for a little while.Carrie-Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05810154378449825641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-67584788020347679732014-07-16T11:43:40.398-07:002014-07-16T11:43:40.398-07:00Lee: True, a lot does depend upon the story, which...Lee: True, a lot does depend upon the story, which is why the perspective should serve the story, not the other way around.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-13554057344132139432014-07-16T06:59:20.136-07:002014-07-16T06:59:20.136-07:00I usually don't pay that much attention to des...I usually don't pay that much attention to descriptions of people in books, but a first person description can be very effective when the narrator is describing someone else. First person is better at conveying opinions, thoughts, and interjected ideas that would sound like the author's voice if used in 3rd person. A lot depends on the story and the type of character and what the author wants us to know about the character.<br /><br />An example that I think is good is <i>To Kill a Mockingbird</i>. The narrator brings to life everything around her and vividly depicts how everyone looks and how a child thinks and feels. That book would not be at all effective told in 3rd person.<br /><br /> Lee<br /><a href="http://tossingitout.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Tossing It Out</a><br />Arlee Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11663942782929929334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-25610986119606185672014-07-12T07:56:00.324-07:002014-07-12T07:56:00.324-07:00Laura: Challenging your writing is never a bad thi...Laura: Challenging your writing is never a bad thing.<br />I've never felt like I was having an out-of-body experience...?Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-54118880032936441832014-07-11T23:11:42.621-07:002014-07-11T23:11:42.621-07:00I agree with Veronica. When I write, I "becom...I agree with Veronica. When I write, I "become" the person with all of their thoughts and feelings, almost the same way that an actor would when stepping into a new role. <br /><br />I suppose third person would be a challenge and a learning opportunity, but it would feel like an out of body experience. Also as far as love scenes go, I do not want to be the perverted voyeur. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03107455013754234394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-52820353222727382792014-07-11T07:47:55.432-07:002014-07-11T07:47:55.432-07:00That's true; you can do all of that, which is ...That's true; you can do all of that, which is where 1st can really work. It's too bad that most people writing in 1st stop at "I was mad."Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-81562494964231584042014-07-10T23:30:58.166-07:002014-07-10T23:30:58.166-07:00I stand here listening, thinking How can this man ...I stand here listening, thinking <i>How can this man be so blind, so selfish... How can he do this to me?</i> And the more I realize how estranged we've become, the louder my heart pounds. We've lost each other, and I can't even remember when. <br />I rub my sweaty palms off my skirt, and swallow. He continues to talk in circles, drowning in self-pity, not even looking me in the eyes. My lips tighten. All the things we've shared, what we've been through, our life together just seems to fall apart, right here, right now, and he doesn't even notice. Tears well up in my eyes, blurring his image. I want to say so many things, but the words get stuck in my throat. And what's the use? There's no <i>us</i> anymore. <br />It takes all my strength to break out of the daze, but I turn on my heels, and walk away, leaving him there talking, his voice slowly fading into the distance.<br /><br />...I agree that you can't use as much visual description in first person as in third, but you can substitute it with emotional cues, thoughts and perspectives, and thus not lose any of the power. :)Veronica Sicoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03741318844378921184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-5859609147769965392014-07-10T15:05:58.692-07:002014-07-10T15:05:58.692-07:00Briane: Not having read Hunger Games, I don't ...Briane: Not having read Hunger Games, I don't know how to respond to that. I mean, is it Katniss that tells us she's beautiful? Because, at that point, it's hardly credible.<br /><br />There are things that can be important about descriptions. Let's take Harry Potter, for instance. It's important for us to know about his scar and his unruly hair and the broken glasses. Hermione's hair is also important, as is Ron's. Hmm... Rowling seems to have a thing for hair. Anyway... Beyond those things, though, how they look isn't significant.<br /><br />Jessica: Me, too! Oh, wait...Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-6271617401523766792014-07-10T13:20:26.273-07:002014-07-10T13:20:26.273-07:00"The perspective you're writing in should..."The perspective you're writing in should serve the story and, if first person doesn't add to the story, if first person doesn't bring something to what you're doing that third can't, you shouldn't be using it." I totally agree with this.Jessica Lawsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08916560941871741885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-22726934364794696792014-07-09T17:33:53.697-07:002014-07-09T17:33:53.697-07:00Well, those people who read my article on this in ...Well, those people who read my article on this in the July issue of IWM ON SALE NOW GO GET IT FOLKS! Click that picture at the top right side of the blog know how I feel, and you touch on it here: do everything for a reason. <br /><br />I'll comment on character descriptions: As you note, is it important to the story? I feel like most of those descriptions are important to the writer, or the reader. It's important for people to know that Katniss is beautiful, or whatever, but it doesn't matter to the STORY. <br /><br />P.T.'s descriptions of Becky and Scarlet Knight are more important to the story: the contrast between Emma and Becky helps the plot in some cases, and Becky's personality depends in part on the reader knowing that she's overweight. <br /><br />I can't recall many descriptions of characters in many books, because I pay them so little attention. The ones I remember offhand are Orr, from Catch-22, whose description was incredibly important to the story because it helped hide what he was doing, and some of the other characters in that book had to be described, too.<br /><br />That's all I've got time for, but good article.Brianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01616494058636881575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-59972357353547871892014-07-09T15:13:57.924-07:002014-07-09T15:13:57.924-07:00Maurice: I think flexibility is good.Maurice: I think flexibility is good.Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-55362855534792526212014-07-09T13:53:00.525-07:002014-07-09T13:53:00.525-07:00It does give many more choices based on the story....It does give many more choices based on the story.Maurice Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15338165486757095191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-91232436491429105892014-07-09T10:06:19.925-07:002014-07-09T10:06:19.925-07:00Ellie: You might consider that if it's the vie...Ellie: You might consider that if it's the viewpoint that you feel most comfortable with that that makes it the one that is easy. That's sort of by definition. When we go outside of our comfort areas, things get more difficult.<br /><br />Elsie: It's fine for you to have an idea of what your protagonist looks like as long as your protagonist doesn't monologue about it.<br /><br />Pat: Yeah, I know I am. First is popular, right now, but that doesn't mean that it's the right choice for people. I think first is fine for people once they've practiced in third, if that makes any sense. When you have only ever written in first, the POV lacks... variation.<br /><br />Sandra: See, and I think that's an important thing to say: "depending on the story," because the story ought to tell you what perspective you need to use. Most people, I think, just write in first and try to make the story fit that viewpoint... and fail.<br /><br />Crystal: See, I don't know that I ever feel sucked into the MC's head in first person but, then, that may be just bad first person writing. Even books that are reasonable well-written, I don't feel all intimate with the character (for instance, my recent review of Old Man's War).Andrew Leonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13964775673414653644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-53853127923409787042014-07-09T09:36:17.474-07:002014-07-09T09:36:17.474-07:00I've written in both, and I LOVE how personal ...I've written in both, and I LOVE how personal first person is. It really sucks you into the MC's head and helps you empathize. At the same time, if the MC is at all stupid or silly in their thinking, it will alienate readers. I've got back to third after dabbling with both, although I do have at least 3 books written in first that will remain in first. 3rd is so much easier for showing the entire story. =)Crystal Collierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03912469552483168148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-47060420489029808062014-07-09T07:07:25.957-07:002014-07-09T07:07:25.957-07:00I write in both first and third, depending on the ...I write in both first and third, depending on the story. I wrote Lyon's Legacy in first so I could use Jo's voice. (Later on, we find out that this story is her journal, so it's natural for the story to be in first.) The sequel, Twinned Universes, is mostly told from the POV of her son, Paul, but sometimes I switch viewpoints when I need someone else's perspective. Third person worked best for that story. If the POV has a strong voice, I may write in first, but my default is third.Sandra Ulbrich Almazanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15365908651235829765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-6311706124315014842014-07-09T05:52:15.591-07:002014-07-09T05:52:15.591-07:00You're swimming against the current on that on...You're swimming against the current on that one. In "Chance of a Lifetime" I cheated to get a description of Steve becoming Stacey by having him have an out-of-body experience. The first version of Where You Belong was in third person but the first person version worked much better.PT Dillowayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09394481476862013009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-45401927329035636622014-07-09T04:55:59.597-07:002014-07-09T04:55:59.597-07:00I favor first person when I write. Much like Elli...I favor first person when I write. Much like Ellie, I also enjoy being inside my character's head and then conveying how they feel. It's true, it's easy to "tell" rather than "show" but I think as long as you're aware of it, you can avoid it. For me, I like a bit of description of the main character. Just a bit, so I have a starting place for my imagination. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7844784446912062670.post-51558944176381530352014-07-09T04:02:46.697-07:002014-07-09T04:02:46.697-07:00I see exactly what your point is and yes, you can&...I see exactly what your point is and yes, you can't give the same level of description in first person. But I always write in first person, and it has nothing to do with it being easy. It's simply the viewpoint I feel most comfortable with. I like being inside my MC's head. Does my description suffer because of it? Debatable. Does my MC's voice sound the same as everyone else's? No. That's where dialogue and action come in to play. Ellie Garratthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03731071128348213067noreply@blogger.com